Q about Steve Forte's Casino Management Book

[Homeito]

Hello,

This post is most directed to Herb and Shadowman...
But all are of course invited.


In the thread "Finding the elusive..." in the Bet Selection section Herb recommended us to read Steve Forte.
I posted this link to a article written by him:
nolinks://nolinks.blackjackforumonline.com/content/roulettesteeringorsectionshooting.htm

In that article he writes:

Many people will argue that roulette dealers after time develop "signatures" to their spins. They argue that roulette dealers "fall into a groove" and that a typical spin tends to produce similar results. I disagree. These same typical spins, produced with the same force (whether deliberately or by habit) will produce different results from day to day! How then could roulette dealers ever possibly develop "signature" spins?

And...

Finally, the most obvious factor, and remarkably, the one that many seem to forget: Roulette section shooting or steering would require the perfect correlation of two questionably attainable skills, not one. The roulette dealer would have to aim twice! He would first have to push the rotor to a perfectly pre-determined speed, and then spin the ball with a perfectly pre-determined force. And the actions would have to be executed naturally to avoid suspicion.

In the "Elusive-thread" I read that Shadowman has read a book about casino management by Mr. Forte and I suppose also Herb has.


What I think would be interesting to know is if Mr. Forte debunk DS and sector shooting totally in that casino management book?

Or does he in fact warn the casinos about it?

As I believe that both can be used by the croupiers AGAINST the casino in co-operation with a "regular gambler" it is something that they have to be aware of... if it really exist.
And so it is something that would be written in such a management book.
That is in my opinion.


I find it interesting to know this as I am trying to develop a method and it may have elements of DS in it.
I say "may have" because DS is not really what I am doing but IF it exist I have to consider it or it may affect my method in a negative way. Maybe.


Thank you In Advance for your reply.


Best regards,
Homeito Bemek

[shadowman]

hi Homieito

In the book casino game protection Steve Forte definitely debunks dealers signature and section shooting.  However I have also read somewhere, (I am not sure of the link at the moment) that during one of his protection lectures he actually demonstrates section shooting on a tilted wheel.

I am never quite sure which side of the fence Steve Forte is batting on whether its for the casinos  or the advantage players, I think that everyone gains.


Now I have personally had section shooting demonstrated to me by an old time croupier,  he spun 6 – 10 spins consistently to within 2 pockets either side of any number that I called.  I also noted how he did it. So I would recognise it if it was done to me.  But it was on an older wheel with deep pockets.  As an aside he told me that there were times when management had asked him to avoid the sections where the heavy action was.

I have spoken to a number of other ex croupiers who claim to have been able to hit sections.

On Jafcos visual roulette site there is video footage of section shooting as well, tho the wheel doesn't seem to have much scatter.

Chris Pawlicki in "get the edge at roulette" also claims to have been able to hit desired sectors, (and that was after only 24 hrs practice) again I think that it was an older wheel

Former croupier Carl Sampson in Killer roulette claimed that he could do it on a modern low fret Huxley wheel,  however That book smells like a work of fiction, not sure about that one.

As an extension to your question I would like to know if section shooting can be done on a modern wheel, I suspect it can at slow spin speed and dominant drop zone. Its interesting that you ask as I was going to ask either Herb or Kelly the same question.

[Herb]

This post expires on Wed., 6-17-9. Like Milk, some posts spoil

[Marven]

Great post Herb.

That's why whenever I cross a DS method or player that doesn't take into consideration the proper use and exploitation of a dominant drop, I just pass.

Regards,
Marv

[shadowman]

That was an excellent post Herb, it really hit the spot and answered a lot more questions than I had anticipated.

Thankyou

[Homeito]

Hello,


Herb and Shadowman...

THANK YOU for very informative replies.

As a side-note I can add that I once asked a dealer about hitting numbers or sectors at will but she said she can not do it.
(Did I expect any other answer..?)

My quest goes on.
With Herb's post in mind...


Best regards,
Homeito Bemek

[Spike]

The Wizard of Odds points out that for all the decades that this has been claimed, not one single dealer has ever proven it to be true, out of 10's of thousands of dealers worldwide. Not one. Why is that, do you suppose?

[Kelly]

Even i can do it to some degree, if the wheel is tiltet and the ball is not the nylon type.  On a level wheel, no one can.  No dealer will step up and announce they can do it, because they would be sacked while no punters would play at their shifts.

In the new casinos, it might only be possible on 1 out of 10 wheels.

[Herb]

The Wizard of Odds points out that for all the decades that this has been claimed, not one single dealer has ever proven it to be true, out of 10's of thousands of dealers worldwide. Not one. Why is that, do you suppose?

Spike,

I thoroughly explained why in my post above.  However, I'm guessing that it was well beyond your level of cOmPrEheNsIoN.

-Herb                                                                                                                                                                                                                             /.\

[rjeaton1]

Spike,

I thoroughly explained why in my post above.  However, I'm guessing that it was well beyond your level of cOmPrEheNsIoN.

-Herb                                                                                                                                                                                                                             /.\

This post made me laugh a bit...still chuckling

[Spike]

I thoroughly explained why in my post above.>>

I don't read your posts, Herb. Sorry..

[Kelly]

Of course you do, you just replyed to him.

It should have said; "Sorry herb, i got no experience in this field".

[Spike]

Still waiting for the dealer who can hit anything he wants to come forward and prove it. Knowing somebody who knows somebody who saw somebody do it in 1984 doesn't count.

[shadowman]

Spike

here is an example of someone controlling the ball to specific sections possibly not the best but a demonstration all the same.
nolinks://nolinks.visualroulettesystem.com/croup1.htm

although I think that there is enough information in this thread to try it yourself

[lucky_strike]

Give him Johns email so he can take lessons 

LS

[lucky_strike]

-