TurboGenius (4 number method)

[studyolic]

OK,  for tcs and others like me,  I'm trying to boil down a nice simple version;   maybe something like this;
watch first 15 spins.
See which dozen is getting most hits.  If it's unclear,  wait another 6 spins.
Once you have 3 numbers at least in your most-active dozen,  start to bet @ 1 unit per number.
A hit on a number in a street where a bet number is,  kills that street.  Add one unit to the remaining numbers you are betting on.  
Keep a running tally  of drawdown as spins progress,  against +36 / +72 / +108,  and when your drawdown gets within 12 points of the potential win,  increase your bets by one unit.
Set a stop loss of,  say,  50 units.
Set a stop-win of  4 hits or 100 units,  whichever comes first.

How would you handle a change of dealer?   Sometimes on jebet the dealer changes after 22 spins,  just as I'm getting set up!!   I'm  never sure whether to stop and start a new sheet with the new dealer,  or just carry on.

[cps10]

Not a bad idea studyolic...as for the dealer change, I have not incorporated that into the equation. I don't know if dealer signature is as prevalent here as it would be in the wheel-based system.

[bloomone2002]

Studyolic, this is vey close to the way I am testing now with the wait several spins for a dominant dozen to appear. I would add that maybe if one is to play all 3 dozens, to apply the same virtual play for each, so that you may offset when to get in and get out, but you have a good change of playing all dozens when they are in either a moderate or hot cycle, rather than a cold cycle. Keep testing your stop loss of 50 u for one dozen, I think it might need to be a little higher. I like your thinking. We are very similar conclusions.
I agree with cps10, because this is not a wheel based system the dealer change is not much of a factor. You must focus on the random dispersion of the board.
Bloom

[cps10]

Random dispersion is the key. I had a session with the TG 4#s that was rocky at best. I am trying to figure out where to take this system, as it was working very well at first, and in fact, had a nice rise to 200 units at one point, which might have been the stopping point. But I have seen spots where it has gone down over 1,000 units, and if you get in at that bad point, you are in some trouble.

[bloomone2002]

Yes, shorter sessions, dozen qualification and a stop loss level is most important. Actually I think the stoploss is more important than the stop win.
Bloom

[studyolic]

I  agree about stoploss.  I  think people who do well consistently  have an iron discipline to walk away when their stoploss is hit,  but also STOP  WHEN  AHEAD at each session.  ie   they have specific targets or  boundaries for each session.  But maybe this belongs in the Money Management forum?

[Krash]

I've been mostly playing and testing this method for the last few weeks and just wanted to share my approach to this system.  I do not have any test data or actual results to show you, but I'll try to explain what I've seen so far.  Basically, I'm going to discuss my approach to this method rather than actual results (which have been good so far).

I play on an American wheel (for real money) and usually test on Dublinbet using their preview games mode.  I usually bring 300 units to the table when playing for real, but try to play with only 200 units each session.  The majority of my limited sessions only needed a 100 unit bankroll though, but you will get a bad session sometimes and I'm still trying to determine my own stoploss (probably around 200 units for me).  Also, I only have $5 minimum tables available to me, so my unit is 1$ and each round of betting is $5 minimum.

As I approach the table, I first notice the display and try to determine my first action from the past spins.  Some of you may want to wait for triggers as mentioned in some of the other posts if it gives you more confidence, but I usually see what I need on the display and begin play from there.  Plus, I play all 3 dozens, so I usually find a play right away.

Anyway, I use the display to gain a confidence level in each dozen.  If I see a repeat in a particular dozen, it is like a clean slate for me and I may give it a higher confidence level than the other dozens.  I also note if any streets have been killed from the past few spins, and if so, then I advance that dozen up a level - however, I may not increase the bet according to the higher level until I hit on that dozen and start at a clean slate.

For example, if I approach a table and see this on the display, this is how I may play it:
1
7
0
13
15
2
30
17
15
10
27
26

First Dozen: 1,7,2,10
From this, I will kill the 1-2-3 street and begin play on the 7 and 10 with medium confidence.  The killed street would put this dozen on level 2 betting, but I'll check my other bets before deciding on 1 or 2 units.

Second Dozen: 13,15,17,15
I like seeing a repeater here because it gives me the feeling of having a clean slate.  From this, I would start fresh and start betting on the 13.  Also, when a number hits on a dozen, I'll usually keep playing any open numbers remaining in that dozen, so technically if I was playing, then the 17 would still be open for me, so I may play the 17 as well to begin, but would have low confidence in my betting until I get a hit on this dozen.

Third Dozen: 30,27,26
From this, I will kill the 25-26-27 street and begin play on the 30 with medium confidence.  

So, I feel I have enough numbers to begin play, so I take my $5 minimum and look for 5 bets.  I would probably begin with 7,10,13,17,30.  Even though the 1st and 3rd dozens would technically be on level 2, I want to start slow until I am fully "in the cycle" (I'll talk more about this in a bit), especially since I have low confidence in the second dozen - I don't want to get caught in a hole right away, so I start low and wait for a couple hits.  Once the hits start to come, then I'll play as normal by raising my bets by 1 unit after each killed street within each dozen.


Anyway, during the session, there will be highs and lows.  I've learned to trust the system to get me through the lows, but it gets difficult when you see your stack dropping as you wait for a hit.  Sometimes, a session just goes bad though.  Sometimes you will have a dozen reach level 4 and you'll bet on it for a long time, then raise it by 1 unit to cover previous bets and it still won't hit.. and then the street gets killed.  That is pretty depressing. (When that happens, I just start again with that dozen - sometimes I'll start betting the level+1, but other times, I'll raise the bets in another dozen +1 to cover the bets I put into this dozen until this dozen hits.)

Sometimes a dozen will hit level 2 while you are playing a number on the 3 remaining streets and then the dozen will sleep for a while.  Putting 2 units on 3 numbers for many spins also can put a dent in your bankroll.

These are just some examples of the "lows" that come.  Once you play for a while, you will notice that there will be a cycle of highs and lows here.  There will be times when numbers are hitting pretty often, you're getting to level 3 and they are hitting as well, you're not having to play a lot of bets at once and your bankroll isn't dropping as fast - this is when the system is really working for you.  

And then... it seems after a while, things just start to slow down.  Either you had a few numbers just hit or a few streets were just killed and your bets have slowed down to only a few numbers.  Fewer bets can be a good thing unless you have a couple dozens at a high level and you're waiting for 1-2 numbers to hit.  When this happens, it is comparable to when you first approach the table and you have to let the wheel work through the low and gain some numbers to get back "in the cycle" of things.  THIS is where I'm trying to learn to stop playing.  THIS is where I usually have a profit, but I'm chasing one or two numbers (that may be in level 4) and I'm waiting for a big hit.  THIS is where it's probably best to just walk away.  BUT, being new to this, I still have trouble walking away and I keep playing for that one last payout and I end up losing some of my profits.  I'm getting better at recognizing when this happens, but sometimes if I still have plenty of time, I'll plow through this "low" point and eventually catch the cycle again.  

What I'm trying to say is that you may have a stoploss and/or a stopwin, but sometimes you need a "stoptrigger" or a "stopmoment" such as this.  When things start to slow down and you have a small profit already, just walk away instead of getting caught up in the "low" moments.

Anyway, I realize I'm just rambling, but I thought I would share this in case it helps anyone.  I'm certainly no expert on this and there's probably many ways I can improve what I do, but there's plenty of suggestions already posted.  Check it out and have a great day.

Krash

[Ray]

hi turbo, just want to say glad to see you around.

[TurboGenius]

Thanks Ray

[Iwonder]

Hi guys
I've been following this thread since it started and have been testing the method all along.  Firstly, I think Turbo got the basics spot on first up.  The variation that I have found works for me is this:
I play all three dozens
I play exactly like turbo described except:
After a win, I wait until that entire dozen has been cancelled before I start playing it again.
I've tested roughly 4000 spins this way from Amburgo and am up 4800 units.  I'm not saying there arent losing sessions, and I;m not saying that this is it, but it seems to be doing quite well.

I've also been playing at dublinbet with my test account and have taken it from $563 (Sorry couldnt find the euro sign on the keyboard) to as at now (yes I'm playing while I type) $948 using .50 chips over about an hour a day over the last 6 days.

And for TCS and others, it is simple to track.

I have a spreadsheet open with
123
456
789
101112

131415
161718
192021
222324

252627
282930
313233
343536

Down one column, if a number show in one of the columns, I put a 'b' in the cell next to the column.  If the line is killed, I put a k in the cell next to the 'b'.  When the dozen is full, I wipe it and know Im ready to bet on that dozen again.

Simple as the beer ad in oz says (not quite but close enough)
you can do it watching tv
you can do it milking a cow
as a matter of fact I'm doing it now

Just one footnote:
I've noticed there are quite often multiple wins within one dozen, so maybe a test on continuing to play any unhit lines within a dozen until they are all killed could be warranted as well.

Cheers

[TwoCatSam]

Thanks Iwonder

Good to hear someone else is testing the system.  I like your spreadsheet idea.

Sam

[cps10]

I like it too. Would love to see a test session on a spreadsheet if you have one available so I can figure out how to play it.

[bloomone2002]

@ Iwonder, seems like you have found a very simplistic way of isolating all the information. I with TCS & Cps10, I would like to see your spreadsheet as well.
@Krash, Great Work, thanks for continuing to share your results.
Bloom

[Krash]

After a win, I wait until that entire dozen has been cancelled before I start playing it again.

There is no wrong way to play this,  but I've noticed in my testing that carrying forward any open numbers in a dozen after one of the numbers hit has proven to be very beneficial in most cases.

For example, if I'm in dozen 3 and playing numbers 26 & 36 at level 3 (3 units on each) and 36 hits.  Then I start back at level 1, but I immediately begin placing 1 unit on 26.  Many times those numbers carried forward hit soon after, but even if another number on that street comes, then that just means the street is killed and the dozen is advanced to the next level that much sooner.  Again, there's really no wrong way to play it, but this has worked for me.

Anyway, I wish I could present actual test data for you guys from all the testing I've done, but I haven't been tracking the numbers in the casino while I'm playing or testing on Dublinbet.  I can say that I've had 4 real sessions using this method and have been profitable from this system each time.  I usually play about 2 hours using 1 unit = $1 and have made $155, $290, $150 and $285 using this system.  The last amount happened in about 30 minutes because I was just having one of those good sessions from the start.  It was the first time I set a stopwin (at $250) and I actually stuck to it and walked away.

I'll try to recount what happened, but without all the numbers from the session, I'm not sure if it will help you.  Here goes anyway:

As I approached the table, this was on the display (with the top number being the most recent) from what I can remember:
0
26
5
3
11
19
35
4
36
15
1
15
19

Dozen 1: 5,3,11,4,1
I killed street 1-2-3 and 4-5-6 and started betting 3 units on 11

Dozen 2: 19,15,15,19
I liked seeing double repeats because it gives me a lot of confidence to bet normally on this dozen.

Dozen 3: 26,35,36
I killed street 34-35-36 and bet 2 units on 26

I don't remember what all the next numbers were, but some numbers began to show in dozen 2 and then 26 HIT (in the third dozen) with 2 units on it, I then reset dozen 3.  Then a few spins later, 11 HIT with 3 units on it.  

At one point, I was playing 16 and 24 in the second dozen at level 2 and 16 HIT, so I reset that dozen, carried forward 24 and it hit a couple spins later.  Soon after, I had number 36 at level 3 and it hit again.

At that point, I was +285 and I quickly cashed in and left.  I had plenty of time to keep playing and I was hitting everything, but I was happy.

Thanks to all of you for your posts and tests - it has been very helpful.  Sure, I have test sessions that aren't like this, but so far in real play, it has been nice.  Anyway, I'll try to keep better track of my own testing to share with you all.  Thanks again!

Krash

[Iwonder]

Guys
I don't really see any point in posting my test spreadsheets.  When I'm testing, my spreadsheet is really a carbon copy of TCS's manual sheets.  B1 etc to signify the commencement of a bet and K1 etc to signify a kill.  The only difference is that I will have B1 etc K1 etc with no unit amount bet as I am waiting for all lines in the dozen to be killed.

When I am playing, I only record like posted previously.  I list all the lines down one column of a spreadsheet and if I am playing, I put a B in the column next to the appropriate line and a K in the column next to the B next to the lines that have been killed.  That's it I don't record numbers that have come out or anything.  I can tell how many units I should be playing by the number of Ks within a dozen.  If I have 4 Ks within a dozen, I delete all the Ks and Bs so I know I'm ready to start again on that dozen.
I am a believer in the idea that once I am playing for real money, recording everything about a session is not warranted.  At the end of the day, If Im willing to put my hard earned on the table, I have already satisfied myself through prior testing that the risk and return is satisfactory to me.  If I feel the need to be monitoring every minor fluctuation to see if I can improve a system, then I'm not ready to play it for real.
So, when playing for real, I only record where I am up to and let the account balance tell me the rest.  If it's more than when I started, that's all I need to know

Cheers

[Iwonder]

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