[Reference] The perfect dealer signature!

[Jish]

Now once you have a dealer signature i have no idea whatsoever on how to use it to my advantage, but some observations i have made that i havent seen poseted anywhere else is that in online roulette the ball is dropped in exactly the same place every single time you press the spin button so in theory you can line the wheel up and release the ball at the exact moment you want every spin, what does this mean to me. . . nothing, what does it mean to you roulette gurus, dunno, you tell me.

[Twocando]

On live wheel, let dealer sign you a cheque.

If you can see the dealer signature. follow it on the wheel to the sections. Its like a bias wheel. Will not stay there. Watch out for changes.

[VLSroulette]

Now once you have a dealer signature I have no idea whatsoever on how to use it to my advantage

Hello Jish,

Just to see if we are on the same page. What does dealer signature means to you?

Perhaps you refer to sectorization and not actual dealer signature?

Do you measure the dealer's actual release point when doing your analysis? I'm afraid I'm getting you refer to RNG roulette and the sectorization phenomenon rather than actual dealer signature.

Kind regards, please do elaborate more.

Your friend,
Victor

[VLSroulette]

Here is a post from "Professor Farnsworth" explaining hybrid and blind DS

Regarding DS:

There's what I call Blind DS ,which is simply looking at the spacing in between the numbers that have hit, and then there's Hybrid DS ,where you are looking at the position of the rotor when the dealer puts the ball into motion or at some point during the spin.

Essentially, Blind DS is worthless.  It rarely ever works.  It almost never works if the dealer is changing spin direction each time and it requires a very strong dominant ball drop.  It's easily tested and demonstrated to fail or win by simply dropping the data into the appropriate spread sheet.  The spread sheet simply tests the change in yardage between spins and plots the change.  It tests to see if the change in yardage surrounding zero change in yardage is statistically significant or not.

Hybrid DS does work and is a crude form of VB.  It only works if the wheel has a very strong dominant drop.
Where Blind DS fails, Hybrid DS can give you the edge.  It's tested in a similar method where the degrees of freedom are limited.

In short, just looking at the spacing between the numbers that have hit is of very little value.  Don't play the game blind.  Open your eyes and observe the position of the rotor at each spin, the wheel speed, and the distance the ball travels from the original position of the rotor.

Regards,

Farnsworth3

[Marven]

Thanks Victor.

Will not stay there. Watch out for changes.

Best advice as far as DS is concerned (the real hybrid one anyway, not the fallacy).

@Jish, I see you're talking about a 'spin' button there where you can spin whenever you want. That sounds like RNG.

Mate, there is no dealer nor a wheel in rng, it's a computer program.

[VLSroulette]

Kelly also exemplified what an actual DS sample looks like:

DS as most people sees it is a dealer throwing some numbers, which is what Farnswort calls blind DS. Real DS is based on where the dealer releases the ball and where it ends. If the dealer has a very steady operationel standard his wheel speeds only varys very little. The amount of ball revoloutions also doesn't vary much. If the wheel on top of that has a dominant drop zone,  you will find that randomness to some extent has gone out of the window, because the rotor position when the ball drops will in maybe 5 out of 10 or 20 - 24 times out of 37 have a very tight relationship with the number from where the ball was released.  Simply because the pocket travel rotor wise and ball wise are more or less the same, the end position will also be in the same area.  Thas real DS because it is based on real physics and not the numbers.

A steady dealer might produce data like:
Wheel speed:
70% X 3.0 sec pr rev
15% X 3.05 sec pr rev
15% X  3.1 sec pr rev

Ball revs:
9%  X 11 revoloutions
80% X 12 revoloutions
7% X 13 revoloutions
4% X 14 revoloutions

In 80% of the spins,  where 70% of those will be spun with 3.0 sec, the ball and rotor will travel more or less the same lenght from spin to spin, so the rotor position when the ball drops is by far not random anymore and so will the outcome not be random any more. But you need to know where the rotor startet from (release number for the ball) and measure the pocket distance to the most likely outcome number. And you are correct, it might as well have been letters and not numbers.  The numbers are secondary

Hope this helps.

[VLSroulette]

Thanks Victor.

Best advice as far as DS is concerned (the real hybrid one anyone, not the fallacy).

@Jish, I see you're talking about a 'spin' button there where you can spin whenever you want. That sounds like RNG.

Mate, there is no dealer nor a wheel in rng, it's a computer program.

Marv. Yes. We all need to be on the same page regarding the concept of dealer signature.

Perhaps a post clarifying it shall be made a sticky at the roulette physics section.

EDIT: Post moved to roulette physics section.

[Marven]

Good idea Vic.

[Jish]

Hello Jish,

Just to see if we are on the same page. What does dealer signature means to you?

Perhaps you refer to sectorization and not actual dealer signature?

Do you measure the dealer's actual release point when doing your analysis? I'm afraid I'm getting you refer to RNG roulette and the sectorization phenomenon rather than actual dealer signature.

Kind regards, please do elaborate more.

Your friend,
Victor

I was always under the impression that a dealer signature is that after 1000's of spins the dealer unconsciously begins to release the ball with the same velocity, movement ect thus, hitting the same place everytime he drops it. Also, from my understanding people that take advantage of this watch where the ball lands and make quick calculations on which sector it would land in and place chips accordingly, the only problem I've noticed with this is that it is really obvious to pit bosses and scrutinized in casinos

[lucky_strike]

Dear Jish.

This is the elements for an real dealer signature.

1) Rotor speed
2) Dominant drop zone
3) Release and outcome
4) Distance

a) An lazy dealer 30 years old that puch and give the rotor an consistant speed, average
b) That you have one pin game 7 out of 10 or the same with an 2 pin game
c) Use groups of two spins to get distance with two pin game x 2

I have not test two pin game but this is my tought about it.

CW
26 0 32 15 19 4 21 2 25 17 34 6 27 13 36 11 30 8 23 10 5 24 16 31 1 20 14 31 9 22 18 29 7 28 12 35 3

Lets assume the release point is zero at all times.
Then it will travel a certan distance, could be 0 to 36.
13 pokets.
Then you place bets on 27 13 36 11 30 with one pin game.
If you would have a 2 pin game you would have two distance with two dominant drops.
Lets assume 0 to 36 and 0 to 1, 13 and 23 pockets.
Here you could reduce and apply low/high scatter.
27 36 30 and 16 1 14, covering sectors of five x 2 with 6 placed bets.

Feel free to experiment.

Cheers LS

[lucky_strike]

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