"The Dark Side" section!

[TwoCatSam]

ryan08

Mr Chips has done extensive testing using the Spielbank numbers with his 4Selecta.  He has posted some amazing results.  I do not mean to disparage jerek, but why is he believed and Mr Chips doubted?

I personally tested the 4Selecta over a thousand or so spins.  Now I realize this is not enough to declare it a winner or a loser, but I did win with it for the time I tested it.

I would not bet my money against Mr Chips. 

Sam

[Herb]

When you say that you have tested it over a thousand spins, do you mean that you have actually placed a thousand bets?

People often claim that they have tested a system over thousands of spins, when in reality they have only placed a couple hundred bets.  Just for reference understand that you can't really count spins where there wasn't a bet placed.


Even then, only a thousand spins of testing?  If you're testing a system and are out to prove that it can just turn a profit, then set your eyes on a much larger test sample. While your efforts are heroic, the test size is generally out of the range of hand testing.  Use a computer, and start with 100k spins as a start.

Best of Luck!

-Herb

[Herb]

Einstein was a theoretical physicist not a mathematician. Sure he studied maths at school and so did I, what does that prove?
 
Mr Chips

It proves that even Einstein knew that you couldn't beat the random game of roulette in the long run. 

[Herb]

Actually, there is.

[Herb]

Well put it this way...

The single zero wheel has one too many pockets, does it not?
The payout is only 35 to 1.  This means the house has a 2.7% edge over you.


This means the house payout isn't fair.

Now here's the million dollar question:  What bet amount can you bet that will overcome this negative expectation and produce a positve expectation in the long run?

Let's call this bet amount "X'. 

-2.7% (x) ^the long run = +.........I'm dying to know what value X is.  

By the way, the long run is the power by which you will raise your bet.  If it's 100k spins, then just drop in 100k as the exponent.


It is a widely excepted fact that the random game of roulette can't be beaten by a system.  This much is stated in every encyclopedia known.  The burden of proof is on you. 

Seriously though, don't waste your time trying.  I know you truly believe in your system.  It's tough for you to grasp whether it will really work or not because you're limited to hand testing for now and you refuse to listen to people like me.  It's a tall task to try and prove it works by just trying to show a profit with hand testing.   Where you get the energy, I have no idea.

If you really want to take the route of results based testing, then you'll have to get your method coded by someone like KonFuSed.  Hand testing will burn you out on the game.  Try hooking up with one of this forums great programmers.

Best of Luck.

-Herb

[Herb]

I know you don't like my facts. 

If it makes you feel any better, I don't like them much either.

Feel free to provide me with new ones.

-Herb

[mistarlupo]

Mathematical proof with formulas that roulette is beatable? Guys, come on!

You get unfair odds for your bets, that is absolutely enough.

[See_Jerek]

ryan08

Mr Chips has done extensive testing using the Spielbank numbers with his 4Selecta.  He has posted some amazing results.  I do not mean to disparage jerek, but why is he believed and Mr Chips doubted?

I personally tested the 4Selecta over a thousand or so spins.  Now I realize this is not enough to declare it a winner or a loser, but I did win with it for the time I tested it.

I would not bet my money against Mr Chips. 

Sam

I am defintely not one of those who doubted Mr Chip's 4Selecta

[ryan08]

roulette is only a game of skill if you are using VB, as you need to be able to calculate where the ball will land, if you are following a set of rules, you are just guessing, you will lose eventually.

PS. einstein was a theoretical physicist but i dont know of a physicist who doesnt excel at maths

[TwoCatSam]

-Herb

You're right.  I collected 5,000 spins and tested the 4Selecta on each batch. I did not always test a full 200 spins per day; sometimes I quit at 100 or less.  Since you only bet every 3rd spin at most, I could not have done a thousand.  More like 333 or something.  I never really counted the actual select spins where I placed a bet.

In my mind--what's left of it--I am hearing:  "OK, Sam, you drove the nail and all is well, but how many times did you hit it?"  Sam doesn't know; doesn't care.  Sam drove the nail.  The system makes money/drives nails.  Who cares how many losses if you have, if, at the end of the day, you walk out a winner?

It seems that certain people on this forum are held to higher standards than others.  

Sam

[ryan08]

VB has nothing to do with the game of roulette, but everything to do with the wheel.

but if you take away the wheel then you dont have a game, you just have a table with some numbers on, so the wheel is quite an essential part

[ryan08]

whats VB to do with then if its not roulette?

[ryan08]

the reason why casinos dont welcome it is because people win alot of money with these methods, the reason systems are welcome is because people lose alot of money with them, if there was a winning system for roulette casinos would not welcome them either,

VB has just as much to do with roulette as a system, one wins the other doesnt, thats all there is to it

[ryan08]

the simple fact is using something i got taught i can make 1000 a week with 1 unit stakes, i dont know any system that can make anything near that, so why would i want to play the game 'the way it was intended'?


who said anything about computers? and yes i do support cheating the casinos because it means less money for them and more money for me,



it makes no difference to me how you play the game but you are argueing black is white at the minute.

[Kon-Fu-Sed]

Quotes from this thread...

Regarding advantage players:

Their activities as far as the casino is concerned is dubious and the casino has every right to ask them to leave.
[highlight]I have and would point them out to the pit boss without any hesitation.[/highlight]

(My bolding/highlighting)

Regarding roulette-odds:

They are not really unfair odds at all and in fact they are very good odds.

I think I just learned who's really on the dark side...
KFS

[Kon-Fu-Sed]

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