a demonstration of why systems lose

[ryan08]

true shorty, but i think the topic has just as much right to stay up as any other, it displays correct information and nowhere have i tried to mislead anyone, some members wont like this information but to others this information will be useful, even if the information is useful to just 1 person then the post has served its purpose, so i would say keep this topic up unless you can find a genuine reason why it should be taken down rather than simply because you dont like it

[winkel]

the problem with you VB-players is that you are so vain and you believe to have all wisdom about roulette.

You just use a certain kind of "players intelligence" to beat the house edge.
And you denie that there might be another kind of "players inteliigence".

All around the world in every forum you are present to destroy any kind of disussing roulette-strategies and you are behaving like a dictator who is afraid of being proven to be wrong or the same as every other person.

Back to my question with betting a single number.

Bet one single number until it has hit once more than needed to: spins/37 >1 this is the most simple way to beat the roulette by math.

But you are so stupid to ignore that fact.

no regards
winkel

[TwoCatSam]

Then there is the word "tantamount"..........  

When any person says they have a winning system and someone says there are no winning systems, that is tantamount to calling someone a liar.

This section should come down!  Chips is right.  This is nothing but "The Pit Lite" as I predicted.  

Sam

[ryan08]

Then there is the word "tantamount".......... 

When any person says they have a winning system and someone says there are no winning systems, that is tantamount to calling someone a liar.

read reply #6 properly, and you will see why i havent called anyone a liar.

This section should come down!  Chips is right.  This is nothing but "The Pit Lite" as I predicted. 

it is you guys that have turned it into the pit, go back to your own sections if you dont like whats here.

You just use a certain kind of "players intelligence" to beat the house edge.
And you denie that there might be another kind of "players inteliigence".

read reply #6 and I quote, AGAIN!

'I did the maths to prove that roulette cannot be beat no matter how long you wait for a bet, how many numbers you bet or how long your progression is, I do understand there are people like and including you that use strategies to make a 'system' work, but my post goes to show that bet selection is not important, its rather the player that makes it win or lose, eg.

if jerek posted that system he is using 99% of the forum would lose with it because they would play differently to jerek'

read my posts properly before you post again on here please guys,

[Herb]

Winkel,

You can't call people stupid.  It's ok to call systems stupid, but not the people.  Please attack the message, not the messenger.


Twocat,

Don't be so fragile and grow up.  Ryan isn't the only person that is saying systems don't work.  So does just about every encyclopedia out there.  They aren't calling you a liar.  They are just stating the facts.  This doesn't mean that systems aren't fun to play.  On the contrary, some are a blast to use.  They just don't hold up in the long run.

The only reason this area may appear to be turning into the pit is because of your actions, not ours.


-Herb

[TwoCatSam]

-Herb

Whether you will admit it or not, you are calling people a liar.  You and the rest are a disruption to this forum just like Bago was.  How long Victor will tolerate it is yet to be seen.  Your pm message about my blood pressure tells the kind of person you are.  You are a sadist who takes delight in hurting other people.  What has happened to you in your life to turn you into such a misogynist?

You stated in your avatar you were the "Moderator of Mr Chips".  You can't even moderate your own life, much less that of another. 

Sam

[Herb]

Twocat,

Quit acting like a woman.  Nobody is calling you a liar.  You post this malarchy about your blood pressure and then raise a s h i t storm with your posts.  Then you run around crying about your health and stress levels.  If you can't take it then don't dish it out.

I've tried being nice.  I'm very patient.  But if you want me to act as nasty as you are right now, then I will give it right back to you.


-Herb.

[ryan08]

You and the rest are a disruption to this forum just like Bago was.

assuming i am part of 'the rest' who apparently according to you disrupt this forum, i would very much like to know how i disrupt it please

[Marven]

Thanks for your article Ryan.

According to Manrique this "why systems lose" question is directly related to dispersion of hits.

He answers what kills these systems in the practical world isn't the house edge as much as it is dispersion between hits.

For instance, say the player is armed with a 10-step martingale. Player thinks: the ideal happening for an even chance is 1 in 2 spins, I can resist 5 times that! ...What happens if he actually gets his hit always within 3, 4 or 5 cycles of two spins? HE BEATS THE GAME WITH A SIMPLE MARTINGALE!

In your example of a no-zero fair game, house relies on making their money with dispersion of hits and the natural statistical deviations which occur in the game, till the point the player can't be in play anymore because his hits are too separated from each other (negative deviation) and his limited bankroll can't stand holding him up into the game, as oposed to the virtually unlimited-funded one from the house which guarantees to be there as it is constantly receiving funds from losing players.

In these "fair" no-zero games, the house is expected to win, a practical break-even point for a player experiencing more and more dispersion against him as the sample grows becomes more and more far-fetched.

When you think about it... fair no-zero game my arse, the house always has it stacked towards them! Adding zeroes only shows how greedy the casinos are, they want players money and want it faster!

Victor

Well said Victor. I agree with pretty much everything. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Regards,
Marven

[The Spiders Kiss]

Blimey!!!
I thought i had gone to my daughters Bebo page rather than to the VLS roulette forum .
Come on guys cant we at least be civilised in here? We are sposed to be adults after all.
TSK

[Herb]

It's no big deal Spider.  It's obivious that some people are very passionate about the game.  Which is fine.  Every now and again people have to vent a little.


Now, back on topic.

Not only do bettings systems fail to beat casino games with a house advantage, they can't even dent it. Roulette balls and dice simply have no memory. Every spin in roulette and every toss in craps is independent of all past events. In the short run you can fool yourself into thinking a betting system works, by risking a lot to win a little. However, in the long run no betting system can withstand the test of time. Furthermore, the longer you play, the ratio of money lost to money bet will get closer to the expecation for that game.
                                                                                                      From the Wizardofodds website.


Herb.

A little nonsense, now and then, is relished by the wisest men"- Willy Wonka.

[TwoCatSam]

-Herb

While you're at it, why not explain to us about gravity and how we should not walk off ten story buildings?  Ever heard the word "condescending"?  Your posts are just that.  You act as if everyone was so stupid they didn't realize everything you said is true.

It's true!  Virtually everyone has said it.

There was a time when there were no steel ships because "everyone" knew steel would not float.  Anything heavier than air would not fly.  Yet some dared to defy the "common knowledge".  I am sure you were there then in a different form.  You probably coined the phrase "Fulton's Folly" because no one could build a fire on a boat and produce steam for the paddle wheel.  You are the naysayer who has been around since time began telling everyone it would not work.

Have a good new year!

Sam

[Herb]

Well then, there you are.  You can't please everyone.

Best of Luck and Happy New Year!

-Herb

[ryan08]

can you answer my question two cat please about how we 'disrupt the forum' as you put it

[TwoCatSam]

ryan08

I don't know you; have nothing against you. 

Negativity is like a disease in that it spreads throughout a population---whatever population that may be.  Get a job selling and start spreading negativity and see how long you last.  Be a stock broker and spread negativity to your clients and see how long you last.  Who wants a negative quarterback on their team? 

We all know you can't add two and two and get five.  We all know there is a 2.7% vig on a roulette wheel.  On the 0 1 2 3 bet, it is much higher, something like 8% or so.  We don't need to be constantly reminded like children being told to wear their galoshes in the rain.  Those of us who seriously study the game know the enemy we're up against.

Now see_jerek has said today that enrique will have no trouble making a thousand in January.  What if that's true?  What if enrique could do that every month of 2009?  If he can I want to learn from him.  More than one person has been harassed off this forum.  Gamlet was branded a liar who photo shopped his results.  I don't know enrique or his temperament.  He may be impervious to the insults and slurs coming his way.  But he may not.  He may join the crowd who say--This just isn't worth it!  And he may leave before I learn from him.  And therein lies my complaint.

So you come along and give a demonstration of why systems lose.  What I hear you saying is this:  "All who say they have a system which wins, read this.  Know that your system does not win and give up.  You are Sisyphus pushing a boulder up a hill and you'll never get to the top."

What do you want?  For all of us to throw up our hands and say systems don't work.  Let's all do something else.  Let's shut down this forum as we are all chasing that which cannot be caught.  Would you be happy if you logged on and the forum was gone?  Would that make your day?

To ever make it in this game, one must maintain a positive, upbeat attitude.  If you think you're a loser, you are.  If you even allow the thought of losing to enter into the equation, it will affect your thought process and how you bet.  Why do you want to do that to people?  Why does anyone?

Had you posted WHY THE MARTINGALE LOOSES I would have no problem.  But you have painted all systems with the same brush.  I played roulette for over a year at XYZ CASINO and I never lost.  Never lost!  Did I have losing sessions?  Sure.  Did I lose in the true sense of the word?  No!  I played several systems and they averaged out.  When one was losing another was winning.  I had built $300 into $3200 when they discovered I was from America and blocked me from playing.  It hurt to see that kind of money go.  Even my $300 bankroll.

My wife and I sat in a casino in Vegas and played two systems.  When we walked off with a couple of hundred, the dealer informed us that systems never work.  What would the casino have him say?  "Hey, Sam, that's a great system.  You'll win tons with it."  I don't think so.  What he was doing was planting the seeds of doubt in our minds so we would be a tad more cautious when we next played.  It was a mind game.  Just like the one you are playing.

When a man posts a system, you have no right to criticize until you have thoroughly tested his system as he directs.  If you can show proof it does not work, so be it.  But to hide behind the old 2.7% wall and throw stones is a chicken-heel way to be.

I am tempted to lay my position on the line and begin deleting posts that are negative, insulting or hurtful.  I lived a hell of a long time without being a second administrator of anything and I can make it to the grave not being one.  I accomplished two things on December 31st.  Big D. is only Big D.  He can forget the rest.  -Herb will not be the moderator of Mr Chips in his avatar.  And if bjb007 comes back and calls winkel one more name, I'll delete every post he does it in.  Every program that man every wrote wouldn't amount to Track4 if you added them together. 

You guys ought to look at the new sign-ups every day.  How many of those people to you suppose took a look at the bashing productive members get and decided not to ever post?  We'll never know the systems we didn't get to try because they just decided not to subject themselves to insults and name calling.

I would rather be relieved of my 2nd administrator status than to sit back and do nothing while watching this forum deteriorate.  I'd rather go out saying I did my best than to do nothing and have to live with my conscience.

And whether you believe it or not, ryan08, when you make the statement that all systems fail you are calling some very good people liars.  One member posted about how he turned his bankroll over four times using small bets.  Either ones or fives.  He played the Lw system and a few things of his own.  What you are saying, in effect, is that since no systems work his system did not work and he did not do what he said and therefore he is a liar.

For all you people who do nothing but hurl rocks, I'll leave you with a tiny bit of philosophy:  He who tries and fails is infinitely better than he who never tries.

Sam

[TwoCatSam]

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